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While Bill O'Reilly is still harping about the War on Christmas waged by the secular-progressives, Garrison Keillor is ranting about how secularists are ruining Christmas by celebrating it. I guess it's clear that secularists are ruining Christmas in some way, but nobody is entirely sure how. Funny that, historically, it's pretty much always been Christian groups that have opposed the celebration of Christmas. You probably know about the Puritan government banning Christmas (as well as several other holidays) in seventeenth century England, arguing that it was both too licentious and too Catholic. In more recent times, the Jehovah's Witnesses are the Christian sect most famous for forbidding the celebration not only of Christmas, but of all holidays and birthdays, although they do acknowledge the resurrection (without calling it Easter, mind you). Their reasons are somewhat similar to those of the Puritans, although they're concerned more with the holidays being too pagan than too Catholic. They also add that the only birthday parties mentioned in the Bible are those of the Pharaoh and King Herod, and nasty shit went down at both of them. I suppose their excuse for not celebrating any of the Jewish holidays that are specifically mandated in the Old Testament is that Jesus claimed to have fulfilled the old law, but doesn't Paul say that choosing whether or not to celebrate holidays is up to the individual?


Really, aside from the rule against blood transfusions and the insistence on referring to God by name (and a name that's essentially a misinterpretation of the more accurate "Yahweh," at that), the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses don't strike me as too much different from those of other conservative evangelical groups. [1] I do have to give them props for staying out of politics and nationalism, however, as opposed to all the people who insist they're not "of the world," and then go out of their way to make sure Republicans take office. The common caricature of the Puritans is that they were opposed to anything fun, and we can paint a lot of modern groups with the same brush, if it weren't for the fact that some people find painting enjoyable. Hey, maybe they're right, and I'm not going to get my shiny new body when Jesus comes back. I'm inclined to think, however, that the whole doctrine of self-sacrifice is based on a mistaken notion. I get the impression that the initial idea was that a person should be willing to suffer or give up something they love IF it's beneficial to someone else, and this was eventually corrupted into the concept that suffering in general is noble. Sitting on a pole and wearing a hair shirt doesn't seem to me to be at all beneficial to anyone, and neither does a refusal to exchange presents on Christmas if you want to.


[1] They also have a lot of failed prophecies about the end of the world, but the belief that we're living in the end times appears to be pretty common among fundamentalists, and somehow has been for ages. The original year for the Watchtower Society's apocalypse was 1914, but when that came and went with no signs of the world roasting like a marshmallow, the Governing Body instead decided that this was when Jesus began invisibly ruling in Heaven. Wasn't he already doing that? No, according to Watchtower teachings, he didn't kick out Satan until then. Also, Jesus and the Archangel Michael are the same person. I think the rationale for this one was, "Hey, have you ever seen them in same room together?" For what it's worth, the designers of the Our Lady of Perpetual Help icon apparently thought the answer to this question was yes, as that's Michael in the upper left-hand corner.

Date: 2009-12-20 07:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] onesto-hotel.livejournal.com
Yeah, I was a bit shocked reading that. Garrison Keillor is kind of a dick, isn't he? I mean god, how could you possibly have something against Irving Berlin?

It does sort of make me wonder why non-Christians bother celebrating Christmas though. I mean, I hate Christmas and would be perfectly content doing nothing if it weren't for the fact that I do enjoy getting stuff and getting to see my relatives who live far away. :P

Then again though, aren't Unitarians Christians? I was under the impression they were...so where does GK get off calling someone else's religion not Jesus-y enough?

Date: 2009-12-20 08:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vovat.livejournal.com
Well, really, with holidays, it's often tradition that's more important than belief. You can technically celebrate the birth of Jesus or the Jewish victory over the Greeks anytime, but try organizing a big get-together and gift exchange at just anytime. Besides, I think a lot of us want to keep alive what we did as children. But I do think it should be a matter of choice, and no one should FORCE us to celebrate Christmas or any other holiday.

Unitarians are generally classed as Christians, although I've heard of people identifying themselves as "Unitarian Universalist Pagans." Not sure exactly what the story is with that.

Date: 2009-12-20 09:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rockinlibrarian.livejournal.com
It's my understanding that you can believe basically anything you want as a Unitarian-- there are even atheist Unitarians-- and it's more like a place where you can explore spirituality and religion and discuss it with others and you find your own path with the support of other people finding THEIR own paths, etc. I suspect that I am actually a Christian Unitarian, but I haven't gone as far as actually joining a Unitarian church (perhaps the word "church" makes them more likely to be lumped as Christians, too).

But, original post:
the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses don't strike me as too much different from those of other conservative evangelical groups.
I was THINKING this recently! But more of a "have conservative evangelicals started becoming Jehovah's Witnesses without their realizing it?" One of my best friends in sixth grade was a Jehovah's Witness, and I remember it was like she belonged to a bizarre cult (I guess it is a cult, though one of the less psychotic ones), the seemingly harmless stuff we'd do at school which she wasn't allowed to participate in, related to holidays, mentions of magic, carols with the word "Hallelujah" in them, saying the pledge, etc etc (I guess that pledge part is one place the JWs and the Christian Right divide on-- like you said about the JWs not getting into politics. Personally I think I'm with the JWs-- it DOES seem like idol worship), and of course the End Times focus. But lately it's occurred to me how much more COMMON those same sorts of avoidances I'd once thought were weird have become. Well, I still think they're weird, but they're less UNUSUAL, I mean! I wonder what evangelicals think of the Jehovah's Witnesses anymore, actually....

As for Christmas, I kind of wish it WAS a secular holiday-- NOT a COMMERCIAL holiday, but a secular one with religious overtones-- kind of like "religion optional." Easter, for me, is a religious holiday and ought to stay that way (maybe we all ought to incorporate that "Resurrection Day" thing), but Christmas is BIGGER than that, and OUGHT to incorporate all belief systems. I will personally still celebrate the Coming of Christ (not "Jesus's Birthday," which is so simplistic as well as inaccurate it almost OFFENDS me from a religious standpoint), but the MEANING of the Coming of Christ-- LIGHT! HOPE! REDEMPTION! ETC! is something EVERYONE needs at the darkest time of year, whether they want to pin their souls on the guy with that title or not.

Date: 2009-12-20 09:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vovat.livejournal.com
It's my understanding that you can believe basically anything you want as a Unitarian-- there are even atheist Unitarians-- and it's more like a place where you can explore spirituality and religion and discuss it with others and you find your own path with the support of other people finding THEIR own paths, etc.

Makes sense, although I thought the name derives from the fact that they all believe in one god. Most pagans have multiple gods, and of course atheists have none. Or does the word derive from "united"?

Date: 2009-12-21 12:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rockinlibrarian.livejournal.com
I think it's "united," everybody together believing in the universal truths behind the religions-- or maybe that's where the "universalist" part comes from. I don't know. Angie might know, the history of that stuff, she's a Unitarian minister. Gee, I can drag up a best friend to be my example for ANY religion, can't I, JW to UU!

Date: 2009-12-21 11:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vovat.livejournal.com
Do you have any friends who are Christian Scientists? What about volcano worshippers?

Date: 2009-12-20 10:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] poisonyoulove.livejournal.com
Considering Christians STOLE the holiday from Pagans in the first place, I don't feel any sympathy for them. I'll celebrate whatever I damn well please! Eat, drink, and be merry . . . because it pisses off Garrison Keillor!

Growing up, one of my best friends was a Jehovah's Witness. The thing about their religion that always really bothered me was that if someone was kicked out, they weren't allowed to ever talk to them again, even if it's a close relative. I mean, if someone's kid is kicked out, the parents can never speak to them again? That's seriously fucked up. :-/

Date: 2009-12-20 11:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vovat.livejournal.com
It's pretty messed up, and I would imagine it's an extra level of control for the leaders.

Date: 2009-12-21 12:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rockinlibrarian.livejournal.com
Oh! Shunning may be ANOTHER way evangelicals are getting more like JWs! It might not be that extreme yet, but I don't know, I've heard of people disowning their gay kids or whatever...

Date: 2009-12-21 11:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vovat.livejournal.com
Well, medieval Catholics were quite keen on excommunication, also.

Date: 2014-02-18 11:11 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
If any social group emphasizes shunning, I'm out.

Date: 2014-02-18 09:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vovat.livejournal.com
If an organization feels that kind of separation it necessary, it suggests an incredible amount of insecurity.

Date: 2009-12-21 12:46 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] doktor-x.livejournal.com
You know, my parents were just complaining that the Catholic church is trying to destroy Christmas! At least in their church there’s a push to make it just a religious event, no gift giving and holiday parties, etc.. They don’t even decorate the church at all until Christmas Eve. Oh but of course, the money you would have spent on gifts for all your friends and family, that’s supposed to go to the church now..

Well screw religion and any religious bigots who don’t like me celebrating Christmas. My tree is all pretty and I’m waiting for Santa to show up....

Date: 2009-12-21 12:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vovat.livejournal.com
Hey, Santa essentially is a god. He rewards and punishes mortals as he sees fit, has magical powers, and accepts offerings. Just because he's been conflated with a fourth-century Turkish bishop doesn't mean he necessarily favors Christians.

Date: 2014-02-18 11:17 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
But Santa is Devil Antichrist because his name is an anagram for "Satan". Didn't you know? Plus, L. Frank Baum's The Life and Adventures of Santa Claus posits a Pagan origin for Santa based on Evil Occult Theosophical theory. This is just the beginning. Remember that Satan always appears in attractive forms, offering gifts... [irony]

Date: 2009-12-21 12:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rockinlibrarian.livejournal.com
Must be that parish-- mine (ie Catholic church) is still all about parties and such and Santa even shows up at the end of Mass around St. Nick's day, and that's where I participated in the Angel Tree program...

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