Have you ever tried simply turning off the TV, sitting down with your children, and hitting them?

[vovat]

For the disturbing link of the day [1], check this out. It's about how some self-styled conservative Christians have written about how beating your kids into submission is a good idea. They claim to be following the Bible, which isn't something I can argue with, as Proverbs in particular has several words of wisdom about corporal punishment being necessary (including the infamous "spare the rod, spoil the child"). But then, that was common practice in what was, by today's standards, a brutal, warlike society. Not that this argument would be too effective on the corporal punishment advocates, not only because they're probably the sort who think looking at the Bible in the context in which it was written is essentially blasphemy, but also because I wouldn't be surprised if they're pro-war as well.

I don't know if I necessarily think physical punishment is always bad, but there's a big difference between slapping your kid's hand because they do something wrong and beating the pulp out of them with a switch. Besides, spanking and the like are behaviorism, and I understand that that's not usually too effective on older kids. I suppose that, not having or wanting kids, I'm not really qualified to address the matter. When you get right down to it, though, it sounds like these ultra-disciplinarians don't want kids either, but rather kid-shaped robots (but probably not like the girl on Small Wonder). While I'm not a big fan of punishment in general, I'll accept that it's sometimes necessary. I think, however, that it should be more of a last resort, at least when dealing with someone who has a sense of right and wrong. Whether you think that morality comes from God or from society, I don't think it's too radical to suggest that the basis of behavior should be whether it's right or wrong, not simply Because I Said So. Maybe there are situations when the latter would have to be invoked, especially with someone who's trying to see what they can get away with, but some of these corporal punishment advocates encourage such an attitude even when the kid hasn't done anything wrong. And that sounds rather like Looking-Glass justice to me.

`For instance, now,' [the White Queen] went on, sticking a large piece of plaster on her finger as she spoke, `there's the King's Messenger. He's in prison now, being punished: and the trial doesn't even begin till next Wednesday: and of course the crime comes last of all.'

`Suppose he never commits the crime?' said Alice.

`That would be all the better wouldn't it?' the Queen said, as she bound the plaster round her finger with a bit of ribbon.

[1] Not actually a daily feature

Comments

[dragonxbait.livejournal.com]

http://www.amazon.com/Becoming-Baby-Wise-Reference-Worldwide/dp/0971453209 Becoming Babywise, is a mainstream (but still written but a fundamentalist) version of this for tiny infants. They had to revise the first edition because infants were literally starving, because their parents were not feeding them often enough. Lovely stuff. I do not believe in corporal punishment at all. For adults or children. I am not a fan of behavioralism, but even if I were it is well accepted that punishment is not an effective way to modify a behavior in a long term way.

[vovat.livejournal.com]

Well, these writers probably also believe that fear of the wrath of God is the only thing stopping people from robbing and murdering everyone they see, so I suppose their views are consistent in that respect.

[rockinlibrarian.livejournal.com]

It's weird how the corporal punishment issue seems to not be resolvable primarily just because nobody can agree on where the line gets drawn! I see some situations where a firm spanking is actually probably best, but, uh, for EVERY infringement? multiple swats? drawing friggin' blood? Going too far for sure. And you'd think that would be obvious, but then there are other times when I simply think a different form of punishment would be more fitting the, er, crime. But then other times-- usually when some sort of bad attitude is involved-- it seems like what's needed. But granted, I have a one-year-old, and the most corporal I've ever gotten with punishment there would be to hold his arms down firmly while saying NO! because, hey, he's one year old.

But about that Babywise that someone mentioned above? It's not quite as bad as that! It's not just about punishment (it's more a general parenting philosophy and techniques), and it's REALLY not about abuse, it's just stricter and less child-led than a lot of other parenting philosophies, and if used exactly without also being flexible to what is actually going on with your kid, it CAN cause problems, but I know several very sensible and loving parents (and I should also mention that none of them are fundamentalists, too-- in fact one's a rather outspoken agnostic) who have used the system flexibly and LOVE it, say it's made a lot of difference and their children are indeed thriving. But that's one of the reasons I quit my "april babies" community-- I was sick of people accusing everyone who didn't think EXACTLY LIKE THEM of being a child abuser (from all sides of many issues). The geekparents have been much better about being open to many different philosophies!