Conversations on and on

[vovat]

It was as foggy as all get-out this morning. So how foggy is all get-out? All I can say is that it's really friggin' foggy.

Okay, here's a poll:

[Poll #1088556]

I'm pretty much a textbook introvert. The last time I took one of those Myers-Briggs things, I answered 100% of the relevant questions on the introverted side. It seems like most people I know are also introverts, yet they say there are a lot more extroverts in the world, which I guess just means I'm drawn more to people of my own type (and vice versa). You'd think that extroverts, who presumably need to converse frequently in able to function properly, would have worked conversation into a finely honed art form, but such does not necessarily seem to be the case. Are the extroverts instead the people who thrive on the dreaded Small Talk? I've been considering this as of late, but I don't know whether it's actually true. I mean, I AM biased in this respect, after all.

Also regarding conversations (and communication in general, I suppose), I've heard that women tend to be more interested in feelings, and men in facts. Guys also seem more eager to show off their knowledge and spout off irrelevant trivia (and I don't exclude myself from this generalization). Is it a way to show off, a desire to be considered relevant and interesting, or both? And is this trait really more common for males than females? I can't say I know, but any comments you have would be welcome.

Personally, I'm sure I find some rather irrelevant things worthy of mention, like the fact that the calendar kiosk at the mall had calendars based on presidential candidates. I saw Hillary Clinton, Obama, Giuliani, and McCain, the last of which kind of surprised me, as I didn't think he was doing so well in the polls as of late. He is pretty recognizable, though. I've heard that Huckabee is polling pretty well, but I'm not sure I could pick him out of a crowd. Romney, on the other hand, is the one that looks like Frankenstein's monster. (Hmmm, Firefox recognizes "Clinton," "McCain," and "Romney," but not the other three candidates I mentioned. Is this some kind of implication as to the candidates that its programmers support?)

Another thing that I feel is worth mentioning is my dream last night (or, more accurately, this morning). I was visiting my grandmother in Virginia for Christmas, and worrying about whether I'd be back home in time for work. At one point, I was doing some temporary volunteer job that involved visiting members of my grandmother's church. I had no idea what I was actually supposed to be doing, but they gave me a key that worked in all of their front doors. Later, I was trying to drive to the mall, and I ended up at an amusement park instead. I also wanted to take a shower, and I discovered that a cat (possibly bethje's Reagan) was in there. I turned on the water to try to scare her off, but she just stood there and drank it.

Comments

[bec-87rb.livejournal.com]

You'd think that extroverts, who presumably need to converse frequently in able to function properly, would have worked conversation into a finely honed art form, but such does not necessarily seem to be the case. Are the extroverts instead the people who thrive on the dreaded Small Talk?

Oh God Yes. You can always spot the extroverts - they won't shut up, and they think out loud. Meetings with all extroverts last forever, because they haven't figured out anything in advance, and they can't conceive that you're bored by their OT gabbing and that you have things to do. After all, what could be more pleasant than some chat? *eye roll*

AS someone with characteristics of both, I want to grab both types by the lapels and yell at them.

I've heard that women tend to be more interested in feelings, and men in facts. Guys also seem more eager to show off their knowledge and spout off irrelevant trivia (and I don't exclude myself from this generalization). Is it a way to show off, a desire to be considered relevant and interesting, or both? And is this trait really more common for males than females? I can't say I know, but any comments you have would be welcome.

If it's true, I'm a man. I always assumed the more male need to recite endless reams of trivia had to do with 1. facts jazzed them 2. they don't correctly read signals that the audience is bored to tears.

I think some women do it, too. *raises hand* It's just that women get punished more thoroughly and more often for transgressing social norms about hogging the floor, so they are more likely to cut themselves off when they detect restlessness in the listener. Some men miss the clues.

[rockinlibrarian.livejournal.com]

I always assumed the more male need to recite endless reams of trivia had to do with 1. facts jazzed them 2. they don't correctly read signals that the audience is bored to tears.

I think some women do it, too. *raises hand* It's just that women get punished more thoroughly and more often for transgressing social norms about hogging the floor, so they are more likely to cut themselves off when they detect restlessness in the listener. Some men miss the clues.

Ooo, good point! I agree with you then.

As my response to the main post, I'll continue here then-- yeah, I tend to lean toward discussions of useless trivia myself, but I also tend to prefer the conversational company of guys... and girls with tomboyish tendencies. I tend to clam up around your typical fashion-conscious shopaholic female.

As for extroverts, I've noticed there are several kinds of extroverts: the kind that just want to be the center of attention and aren't concerned with what other people have to say, the kind that make a conscious effort to be as friendly and considerate as possible (these might be more of the "little of both" at heart), and the kind that's just naturally socially fearless. My husband falls into the last category, which makes for some nice compatibility, because he doesn't talk so much that I can't fit a word in (as someone in the first category would... it's possible his mother falls more into the first category than he does), but instead encourages me, through his conversation, to talk more myself, so it really works out well. A lot of people were surprised by our compatibility in this way at first because we were "so different," but I dated a very introverted guy just before that and it was SO BORING because we couldn't keep up a conversation! It's like that question "Would you be friends with yourself if you were two people?" and I'm STILL not sure I would be. ONE of us would have to get a whole lot more outgoing, or at least more decisive.

[bec-87rb.livejournal.com]

Oh, I was married to an extrovert for years, and they're great in that they attract lots of people to "do things" with, and he did handle more of the fluffy chit-chat that keeps these Do Things friends around. OTOH, I was driven to near exhaustion by the requirement we go Do Things every weekend.

[vovat.livejournal.com]

Yeah, Doing Things is fun on occasion, but I don't think I could handle Doing Things every weekend.

[rockinlibrarian.livejournal.com]

What's funny is it's the opposite in our house-- I may be the introvert, but I'm also the one with the huge close-knit extended family...

[vovat.livejournal.com]

I tend to clam up around your typical fashion-conscious shopaholic female.

I agree, but I can't say I'm that great with the sports-and-beer males, either. I don't know that I can say I get along better with males or females in general, although I do think women are expected to become Really Serious as they get older (especially if they have families), while men can continue to enjoy themselves. And I can't say I get along that well with Really Serious people, but fortunately I know quite a few females who AREN'T like that.

the kind that just want to be the center of attention and aren't concerned with what other people have to say

Despite my introversion, I do have a tendency to want to be the center of attention. I think there was a time when I didn't much care what other people had to say, but I've been getting better about that over time. Besides, if you don't pay attention to other people, how can you be sure you're actually the center of attention, and people aren't just pretending? I know some people who are terrified of public speaking, and while it does make me nervous, it usually doesn't bother me as much as being part of a crowd, or having to talk to strangers on a one-on-one basis. I think for me, there's a big difference between addressing the world in general (which I'm usually okay with) and addressing particular people (which scares me more, unless I'm comfortable with the people).

[rockinlibrarian.livejournal.com]

I agree, but I can't say I'm that great with the sports-and-beer males, either.

Nah, neither am I, but I don't really think of them discussing "ideas" all that much. I suppose sports strategy does count as "ideas."

I do think women are expected to become Really Serious as they get older (especially if they have families), while men can continue to enjoy themselves

OMG, this is because nobody has any clue how draining and time-consuming the actual job of a Stay-At-Home-Mom is until they try it, and they're all like "What do you mean, you need a break? You've been hanging out at home ALL DAY! FOR WEEKS!" and I'm like, "Look, I go to my part-time job and those hours are actually vacation for me. I get paid for the hours of the day I do the least amount of work. What do you think of that?" It's really not that they're that much more serious, it's just that NOBODY FRIGGIN' HELPS. And yes, I've only been doing this for seven months now.

[vovat.livejournal.com]

OMG, this is because nobody has any clue how draining and time-consuming the actual job of a Stay-At-Home-Mom is until they try it

That's understandable, but it's not really what I was getting at. I think there's a definite trend in our culture for girls, more than guys, to start scoffing at things like cartoons and video games as they get older.

That said, the fact that I value my free time so much is one major reason why I don't ever want to raise kids.

[rockinlibrarian.livejournal.com]

But that IS what's behind it, I think. The woman gets forced to be the responsible one, and it's not really that she DOES scoff at fun things, but that she has a million and one things she has to do BEFORE she can do fun things, so she gets annoyed with people who can sit around doing the stuff they did before they were supposedly responsible adults.

Yeah, I wasn't really sympathetic when Jason broke his new video game controller the other day. (At least because it came with a warranty so we didn't lose money on the breakage. Just several weeks of playtime. I would have been WAY annoyed if it broke after it was brand new and that was the end of the story).

[vovat.livejournal.com]

I get the impression that meetings are largely an extroverted concept anyway. Is there ever really that much said at meetings that couldn't also be said in a more straightforward way through written communication?

Some men miss the clues.

Yeah, I think the stereotype is that men are less observant when it comes to such things. I'm not sure how often that actually holds true for members of each gender. I know I'm not so great at reading such clues, which leads to my being afraid I'm boring people all the time.

[bec-87rb.livejournal.com]

Oh, I didn't mean to hand down a sexist gender requirement for maleness. There are socially clueless women, and men who are very sensitive to body language, tone of voice and other ways of reading the intent and emotional state of others.

I just noticed that I have met more men who do not seem to clue that the audience simply does not care, or their need to get the info out is so overwhelming, they barrel on to the end even when they can see that the audience fading. I just assumed it had to do with differential training of the genders on when it was polite to stop talking.

Not implying there is some genetic deterministic aspect to this. I, for instance, was socialized from late teens to early thirties with primarily men friends, so I tend to state things bluntly, interrupt if I have a question, take control of conversations, etc, as if I were a man, because it was the only way I could get a word in edgewise. :)

I like other styles of conversation, too, but I have been trained into that default, so I assume men might have been as well. In fact, I make a conscious effort when talking or writing to women to girl up my prose. Adding question marks, self-depreciations, not stating things as definitively. Which makes me kind of a sexist, doesn't it? Haha.

[vovat.livejournal.com]

In fact, I make a conscious effort when talking or writing to women to girl up my prose. Adding question marks, self-depreciations, not stating things as definitively.

Actually, I think that's a useful idea for men as well. I know that, when I make Grand Pronouncements, I'm often proven wrong shortly afterwards, which is incredibly embarrassing. By leaving myself an out, I can avoid some of that embarrassment. Not to mention that people seeming sure of themselves when they really don't know what they're talking about is a major pet peeve of mine. I'm sure that's part of why I never liked thesis writing.

[loz]

See, the extroverts I know do thrive on small talk, but once again, I'm not sure if that's just my bias showing - since I can't do small talk, at all.

Also, even though I am an emotional person, I much prefer discussing and thinking about ideas.

[vovat.livejournal.com]

Yeah, small talk is kind of difficult for me as well, but I can go on about controversial topics for a long time.