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[personal profile] vovat
Okay, I've finished the book, and I have a LOT to say about it. So here goes:


Not surprisingly, I have to say that I found the end to be upsetting. I sort of suspected that Dumbledore would die, because of the whole Hero's Mentor Dying at a Crucial Moment thing. There was a lot of speculation that he would, and I thought it made sense. It certainly didn't come out of left field like Cedric and Sirius dying. That didn't stop his death from being disturbing, though, especially when seeing it through Harry's eyes. I also have to say that Snape turning traitor WAS kind of a shock, not because I liked him, or even because Dumbledore trusted him, but for narrative reasons. I didn't think Rowling would want to sacrifice a good guy who's a jerk with some serious issues for yet another Surprise Villain. But I guess that's the way Rowling works. Just when you think she's going to zig, she zags.

Indeed, one thing I found particularly interesting about the book was that Rowling pulls off what's essentially a Reverse Red Herring. Snape tells us what he's up to back in Chapter 2, but we suspect he's lying. Harry comes up with a pretty accurate deduction as to what Snape and Draco Malfoy are up to, yet we've gotten to the point where we pretty much expect Harry's suspicions to be dead wrong, especially when it comes to Snape and Malfoy. That's how I saw it, anyway. Maybe everyone else is smarter than me, and had this all figured out while reading the book.

The ending aside, I found that my favorite parts of the story tended to be the ones where we learned about Voldemort's past. I like a villain with an interesting back story, and each trip into someone's memory left me wanting more. The idea that Slughorn had tampered with his own memory was an interesting twist. The whole Horcrux thing kind of reminds me of a video game, where you have to find a certain number of special objects before facing the main villain. Maybe that's just the way my mind is wired, though.

In case you didn't notice, there were a LOT of relationships in this book. {g} Apparently Rowling chose to throw the shippers not just a bone, but an entire skeleton. I'd actually been wanting Harry and Ginny to end up together, but Harry's feelings for her kind of come out of nowhere. I guess it's supposed to be the whole "wow, my true love was right under my nose the whole time, and I didn't realize it" kind of thing. Ron and Hermione continue with their constant tension and trying to make each other jealous. They don't actually end up as a couple in this book (as far as I can remember, anyway), but it strikes me as pretty much a given for the next book (unless Rowling decides to zigzag again). Then there's Bill and Fleur, and Lupin and Tonks. I guess Molly Weasley's explanation about how "people think they might be dead tomorrow, so they're rushing all sorts of decisions they'd normally take time over" helps to explain this.

I really wish Rowling would stop bringing tragedy upon Hagrid. He's always been one of my favorite characters, and not only does he get little respect from many other characters, but he's been expelled, sent to Azkaban, severely beaten by giants, and now attacked by Death Eaters. I do appreciate that McGonagall asks his opinion about keeping the school open. When thinking about this, I came up with the highly unlikely idea that Hagrid could become the new Head of Gryffindor. I mean, the position is open now that McGonagall is the Headmistress, and he's the only faculty member that I know for sure was in Gryffindor. (Really, I would have pegged him for a Hufflepuff, but Rowling has said that he was in Gryffindor. I really don't know whether she's revealed the houses of any of the other faculty members, aside from him, Dumbledore, McGonagall, Snape, Slughorn, Flitwick, and Sprout. Does anyone know?) I'm sure this is just wishful thinking, though. Really, I mostly just hope that he survives the series.

There were a few things I would have liked to have seen addressed in the book that weren't. For one thing, I've seen a lot of speculation about Petunia and Percy, and both of them had extremely minor roles in this volume. Hopefully there will be more on both of them in the final book. I've also been hoping for some time to see more about Filch and Mrs. Norris. I think there's a little more to them than simply a bitter, child-hating squib and his cat. I suppose it's possible that Mrs. Norris is part kneazle, like Crookshanks apparently is. And speaking of Crookshanks, there's another character who was pretty much ignored in this book. I think there was maybe one mention of him. Also, a little more of Snape actually teaching Defense Against the Dark Arts might have been good, but I guess we saw enough of it to get the general idea. And we STILL haven't seen a Slytherin student who isn't a jerk. Can't you have ambition without being evil?

If I might offer some speculation, I think "R.A.B." is Regulus Black, Sirius' brother. I'd forgotten all about him until I saw him mentioned in Half-Blood Prince, but wasn't there something about his having betrayed Voldemort? I can't find the reference right now. Regardless, it seems to fit. I'm sure plenty of other people have already come up with this idea, but I'm still proud of myself for thinking of it on my own. {g}

I was rather surprised by Harry's statement that he wouldn't return to Hogwarts for his final year. I do think the school will remain open, though, and that it will play a significant role even if Harry isn't enrolled there. Assuming that my half-baked idea about Hagrid is incorrect, and that all of the current faculty members remain (including Slughorn as Potions master and Head of Slytherin, which actually seems somewhat unlikely given his attitude after Dumbledore's death, but I'm going to go ahead and assume he'll stay anyway), there are four positions that need to be filled: Deputy Headmaster or Headmistress, Head of Gryffindor, and Transfiguration and Defense Against the Dark Arts teachers. Was it just a coincidence that McGonagall was both Head of a House and Deputy Headmistress, or is that typical? If it is, then we'll probably see either Flitwick or Sprout in the position. Also, I think the most likely candidates for Head Boy and Girl are Ron and Hermione, but Rowling could easily go against expectations in this respect.


Okay, I guess that's all I have to say about the book at the moment. Now I guess I'll go ahead and read other people's comments on it.

Date: 2005-07-21 09:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] twobitme.livejournal.com
I posted a link that describes how I feel about the big death. I don't think Snape is evil. There's too many things pointing the other direction. The basics on the theory is:

1. Dumbledore spent WAY too long saying that death shouldn't be feared. Why would he plea with Snape not to kill him? It seems more like that he was pleading with Snape TO kill him, to save Draco's soul.

2. There was a moment where they just stared at each. In the middle of battle two people just stare? Or were they talking to each other through mind reading?

3. Dumbledore seemed to have known about everything going on. He had absolutely faith in Snape. Why would this be the one thing he was wrong on?

There are others. Find the link in my journal for a good write up.

Date: 2005-07-21 10:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rockinlibrarian.livejournal.com
Wow, thanks. I too was shocked and upset by Snape's betrayal, but your theory puts it in a whole new light.

Date: 2005-07-21 11:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] twobitme.livejournal.com
Fabularasa words it much better than me, but Snape is probably the most developed character in the series. It just doesn't seem right that he'd go all evil after all this.

Date: 2005-07-21 10:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vovat.livejournal.com
You know, you have a good point. I think I'll read the write-up when I get the chance. One thing I noticed was that Snape gives Harry some advice on page 603, before leaving with the other Death Eaters. I thought this might just be a case of the villain gloating by revealing too much information, but doesn't that usually only happen when the villain thinks the hero is going to die shortly? Snape makes sure that Harry is left unharmed, so this probably wouldn't be the case.

Date: 2005-07-21 11:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] twobitme.livejournal.com
Yeah, I noticed his "Leave him unharmed" comment too. It does seem fishy. I read somewhere in one of the many theories of the book, that JKR is ultimately leading to a point where Harry has to realize that Snape ISN'T evil (just kind of a jerk), learn occlumency (or however it's spelled) and work together to defeat Voldemort.

Oh, here's the link to the the non-evil Snape Theory.

Date: 2005-07-22 04:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vovat.livejournal.com
Even if Snape really did want to leave Harry for the Dark Lord, as he says, couldn't he have, say, captured or stunned him? It would have made Voldemort's work that much easier. For that matter, Snape doesn't seem as eager to have Harry expelled as he was in earlier books. I mean, his detentions were a fairly minor punishment for a spell as serious as Sectrumsempra. I mean, in Chamber of Secrets, he tried to get Harry expelled for his stunt with the flying car, which is hardly of the same magnitude. I think Snape might have finally realized that, as much as he hates Harry, he really IS the only one who can defeat Voldemort.

Date: 2005-07-21 11:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rockinlibrarian.livejournal.com
If I might offer some speculation, I think "R.A.B." is Regulus Black, Sirius' brother. I'd forgotten all about him until I saw him mentioned in Half-Blood Prince, but wasn't there something about his having betrayed Voldemort? I can't find the reference right now. Regardless, it seems to fit. I'm sure plenty of other people have already come up with this idea, but I'm still proud of myself for thinking of it on my own. {g}

Wow, I didn't think of that; now that you mentioned it it makes loads of sense though. It would be strange to have a completely new character show up just for the last book, anyway. And I wonder if that means Harry will find some important clues in the house he inherited?

Date: 2005-07-22 05:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vovat.livejournal.com
Yeah, probably. On an e-mail list I'm on, someone mentioned that there was a necklace at Grimmauld Place in Order of the Phoenix. I don't remember that, but I believe it. Someone also offered the suggestion that Mundungus might have stolen the actual horcrux item.

Date: 2005-07-21 11:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] k1cup.livejournal.com
I too do not believe Snape is a turncoat. I think Dumbledore was pleading for Snape to kill him and I agree with what [livejournal.com profile] twobitme said. And, when Snape screams "Don't call me a coward!", I think it's because he's going through the highly dangerous undertaking of trying to fool Voldemort and protect the good guys.

It's too easy to pass Snape off as a traitor because he's portrayed as miserable.

Besides, I like Snape and feel sorry for him.

Date: 2005-07-22 05:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vovat.livejournal.com
And, when Snape screams "Don't call me a coward!", I think it's because he's going through the highly dangerous undertaking of trying to fool Voldemort and protect the good guys.

Probably, although I think there might be more to it than that. I'm guessing that the reason Snape considers "coward" to be the ultimate insult will be explored somewhat in the last book.

Date: 2005-07-28 11:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bethje.livejournal.com
Yeah, I like Snape and feel sorry for him, too. I mean, he is kind of a total jerk, but he also has a reason to be cranky all the time. I especially felt bad for him in the fifth book. I kept thinking that if I were Harry, I would have found him and told him I appreciated what he'd done and everything. In book 5, I mean. I expect something great or heroic from him in the last book.

Date: 2005-07-29 01:40 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] k1cup.livejournal.com
I'm really hoping that Ms. Rowling does the optimist thing and reveals Snape to be a sort of good guy. I felt bad for him in the Pensieve sequence in book 5 too.

Date: 2005-07-29 06:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vovat.livejournal.com
Yeah, I think Snape definitely had a lot of trauma in his past, between an unfriendly home life and being bullied at school. I certainly wouldn't want to have him as a teacher, but I don't think he's totally evil.

Date: 2005-07-22 12:22 am (UTC)
loz: (Default)
From: [personal profile] loz
When I first wrote about DD and Snape, I was one of about 14 on my friends list. Now I come and see that all your friends have great sense, analytical powers and the same wavelength as me (Snape is not a traitor!)

Which is a little worrying because, did you see the first part of JKR's interview with Melissa and Emerson from the websites The Leaky Cauldron and Mugglenet? She mentions people clinging onto desperate hope, and it just depresses me.

If Snape really is a traitor, the main moral of the books seems to be that nasty people are evil people who should never be trusted, that trust in itself is a foolish notion, and certainly giving people second chances never works.

And what sort of moral, or conclusion is that? Especially for books which purport to be for children. Though there's no way in hell I'd read Order of the Phoenix or Half-Blood Prince to anyone younger than thirteen.

If Snape is just a traitor, even if it's not for Voldemort's but for his own devices, well, it's just one more thing Dumbledore was wrong about. And even though, as he rightly said, his mistakes tend to be huge, he wasn't a foolish man. How many other things, then, was he wrong about? And what sort of mentor was he?

Date: 2005-07-22 05:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vovat.livejournal.com
Which is a little worrying because, did you see the first part of JKR's interview with Melissa and Emerson from the websites The Leaky Cauldron and Mugglenet? She mentions people clinging onto desperate hope, and it just depresses me.

I haven't read the interview, but I'll probably check it out at some point. I'm inclined to think that the desperate hope she mentions might not be for Snape, though. I've seen some people refuse to accept that Dumbledore is dead, despite the overwhelming evidence that he is. I'm sure there's plenty of other false hope of that variety. Also, I think Rowling really wants to keep Snape's true loyalties a mystery. Soon after Order of the Phoenix, she said something about how she was concerned that so many readers liked and trusted Snape, and that he would bear watching. It makes sense that she wouldn't come right out and say, "Oh, yeah. Snape IS a good guy after all."

Date: 2005-07-28 11:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bethje.livejournal.com
Yeah, it seems like Rowling is not one to just call a spade a spade. (What does that mean, anyway? Okay, I know what that means, but I don't know where it came from or why.) It's too obvious to say that Snape is bad and he always was and always will be bad (but I totally dig why he'd be so pissed. {g}). Malfoy, so far, turned out to be really fearful, though he acted brave and sure of himself and everything. So what of the Dursleys, particularly Vernon and Dudley? Maybe they'll turn out to be more than what they seem. Or maybe that doesn't count, because they're naive and scared and scared and naive.

No parade for the highest grade

Date: 2005-07-29 06:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vovat.livejournal.com
Based on a quick Google search, it looks like "call a spade a spade" comes from the Greek, and was used by Menander, Aristophanes, and Plutarch. Some people think it might have originally been "call a trough a trough"; the Greek for "trough" is "skaphe," while "shovel" is "skapheion." That still doesn't really explain it, though. One page says that a trough might have been a sexual symbol, but what object HASN'T been interpreted as a sexual symbol at some point or other?

I think Rowling sets up a situation where just about anyone is capable of redemption. Well, maybe not Voldemort (he's too far gone), but definitely Snape and Draco, and maybe the Dursleys as well. I think we're going to be seeing a lot more of the Dursleys in the final book. Rowling built up the whole angle of prior communication between Petunia and Dumbledore in Order of the Phoenix, and then really didn't do anything with it in Half-Blood Prince, so it'll probably be addressed in Book 7. Whether the Dursleys will manage to redeem themsleves remains to be seen, though.

Date: 2005-07-28 11:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bethje.livejournal.com
Ever since McGonagall asked Hagrid what he thought about keeping the school open, I thought maybe he'd be a head of house. But then would he have to live inside the school? That would be weird. {g}

Date: 2005-07-29 06:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vovat.livejournal.com
Well, he's already a teacher, and he lives on the school grounds, so I wouldn't think he'd have to live inside the school. Maybe they'd give him an office in there, though.

Have we ever actually seen the living quarters of any of the teachers other than Hagrid?

Date: 2005-09-07 05:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] onib.livejournal.com
I kept meaning to come back to this post and comment. I finished reading the book a few weeks ago and was sure you had written a review, so now I've found it.

Some good arguements are made on this site for why Snape might not be a traitor and why either Dumbledore is not dead or at least planned his death that way. One thing that occureed to me was that several characters have said many times that Dumbledore is the only wizard that Voldemort is fightened of, and that Voldemort would never dare to show his face publicly while Dumbledore lived. Well, now that he is (or appears to be) dead, Voldemort should drop his hesitation at appearing publicly and be more easy to find and defeat. The site points out that Dumbledore tells Draco that they could make it appear that he died and protect him. This section did nor appear in the British version of the book.

I have this feeling that Dumbledore wanted Harry to study occlumency so badly so that he could be "in" on the plan. However, since he never completed his studies, Snape and Dumbledore are the only ones who could protect their thoughts from Voldemort- so they're the only ones who know what's going on.

Check out the site, you might at least find it interesting. They make some good arguements which would take a long time to repeat here, but some are very compelling. One in particular was the fact that every time we've seen the killing curse displayed, the victim merely drops to the ground dead. This is not what we see on the tower.

Like you, I also thought that R.A.B was Regulus. Doing some searches on the net, it appears that most people agree. One site listed the page numbers in Order of the Phoenix. I think 116, at the bottom of the page, describes everyone going through the items in the house and cleaning them up. One item only mentioned in passing is a silver locket that noone can open. It is thrown in the junk bag with everything else. So, the locket is either still at Grimauld Place or was stolen by Mundungus - probably the latter. A few pages earlier (page 111 or 113 or so), we are told that Regulus was a Deather Eater who got cold feet and tried to back out. Sirius says that he was killed, probably by some lesser Death Eater, because he did not think Regulus was important enough to be killed by Voldemort himself.

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