vovat: (Bast)
[personal profile] vovat
Today is the Feast of the Annunciation, the day of the conception and incarnation of Jesus. This is not to be confused with the Immaculate Conception, which was the conception of Mary, and celebrated on 8 December. This means that her birth is celebrated on 8 September, making her a Virgo, which I'm sure wasn't accidental. See, there's some logic behind these dates, but it's logic that doesn't completely take the historical record into account. The people who came up with the dates for these various aspects of the Gospel story might well have known there wasn't much (if any) evidence to support them, but they had to come up with SOMETHING to replace the old pagan holidays.

This provides a good transition into something else that I'd wondered about for some time, which is how the beginning of the Anno Domini era was calculated. Well, from what I've been able to find, it was determined by the sixth century monk Dionysius Exiguus, based on Luke 3. Luke 3:1-2 tells us, "Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tibe'ri-us Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Judea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip tetrarch of Iturae'a and of the region of Trachoni'tis, and Lysa'ni-as the tetrarch of Abile'ne, Annas and Cai'aphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zechari'ah in the wilderness." It goes on to describe John's baptism of Jesus, and then mentions (in Luke 3:23) that "Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age." The conventional wisdom is that Dionysius ignored the "about," and decided that Jesus was EXACTLY thirty in the fifteenth year of Tiberius' reign. This would mean that Jesus was born after the death of Herod the Great and before the first imperial census, hence contradicting both Matthew and the earlier chapters of Luke. Oh, well. You can't say Dionysius didn't try, and he was actually trying to calculate the dates of previous Easters. I believe the Anno Domini system really began to gain prominence when Bede used it to date occurrences in British history. And we'll be seeing Bede again in conjunction with Easter, so don't forget about him! {g}

Magnificat

Date: 2009-03-25 09:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] suegypt.livejournal.com
I always thought stories of the Annunciation were the coolest, since i was a kid. I don't know if I was just impressed that a 12-year-old girl would be so cool in the face of a winged weirdo appearing to her and telling her she was gonna be the Big Guy's Mom, or just that it seemed so genteel and civilized when what she was agreeing to was to watch her son die for something impossible to understand. Hmmm.

The YOOL stuff is also interesting. I grew up believeing they miscalculated by 3 years, although, I swear I can't remember on which side of the (non) zero!

Re: Magnificat

Date: 2009-03-26 04:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vovat.livejournal.com
I don't know if I was just impressed that a 12-year-old girl would be so cool in the face of a winged weirdo appearing to her and telling her she was gonna be the Big Guy's Mom

She probably just thought she was hallucinating or something.

By the way, do you know where the idea of Mary being really young at the time comes from? I know it's an old idea (the Protoevangelion makes her much younger than Joseph), but I don't know that there's any reference to her age in the Bible. Or is it just because she was engaged to be married, and it was common for girls in that day and age to do so at a young age?

I grew up believeing they miscalculated by 3 years, although, I swear I can't remember on which side of the (non) zero!

It seems to be the more common opinion that Jesus was born BEFORE the year 1 BC, but I'm not entirely sure why.

Re: Magnificat

Date: 2009-03-26 05:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] suegypt.livejournal.com
I don't know where they got the idea of her being 12. My Daddy was a priest, and studied that stuff, but he's long-gone, so I can't ask him. I think that, in those days, the custom was in Jewish families to marry the girls off soon after they gained puberty (they would already be promised in marriage before that). The logic of the times would have been that, Mary being about to be married would have soon been "spoiled," so the angel had to move it. So Joseph wasn't too pleased, but had to get over himself.

(PS - I also have to be kind of impressed by his reaction, too. Most men would have chucked her into the street and kept the dowry)

Re: Magnificat

Date: 2009-03-26 06:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vovat.livejournal.com
I don't know where they got the idea of her being 12.

One year for each tribe of Israel?

Most men would have chucked her into the street and kept the dowry

If she's lucky. Wasn't the general punishment for conceiving out of wedlock being stoned to death?

Re: Magnificat

Date: 2009-03-26 06:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] suegypt.livejournal.com
Wasn't the general punishment for conceiving out of wedlock being stoned to death?

After you'd given birth, I suppose you could be stoned to death. Back in the day, however, no "man" would kill a woman still packing his kid, just in case she had a boy. Even a little girl could at least be made into a slave or concubine. I guess we didn't invent "reuse, recycle, renew."

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